Jeremiah Kipp talks with with ’R Xmas director Abel Ferrara

Drea de Matteo in ’R Xmas

Anything goes during an interview with maverick filmmaker Abel Ferrara. In the middle of discussing his new feature, ’R Xmas, which premieres at New York’s Cinema Village on November 22, a friend staying with him at the Chelsea Hotel flipped through Gideon’s Bible and read aloud a New Testament passage: “You bring forth what is within you, and what is within you will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.” Ferrara thought about it for a moment, took a swig of booze, then agreed that it figures perfectly into a discussion of his films.

His personal, hardcore aesthetic scrapes the psyche raw in movies like Ms. 45, where a mute rape victim suffering from post-traumatic stress launches into a series of methodical revenge killings, or charting the redemptive meltdown of rogue cop Harvey Keitel in the uncompromising street epic, Bad Lieutenant. His characters, from Christopher Walken’s gangster overlords in King of New York and The Funeral, to Lili Taylor’s vampire philosopher in The Addiction and Matthew Modine’s coked-out film actor in The Blackout, are all searching for cosmic significance in the trash heap of their psycho-dramatic lives. Ferrara takes his extreme cinema to the edge, and sometimes has been accused of toppling over into the abyss.

With ’R Xmas, Ferrara once again plumbs the sleazy underbelly of urban life. But this surprisingly bittersweet fable is reminiscent of the O. Henry story The Gift of the Magi, where a couple must make tremendous sacrifices during the holiday season. In the end, they overcome their obstacles and have a merry Christmas, but their lives will never be the same. Ferrara’s version — based on a story he heard from a heroin pusher — follows a drug dealing husband and wife (Lillo Brancato and Drea de Matteo) comfortably settling into a bourgeois lifestyle while maintaining their down ‘n’ dirty supply center in Spanish Harlem.

On Christmas Eve, it seems like this couple’s biggest problem is tracking down the sold-out Party Girl doll their adorable daughter (Lisa Valens) simply must have. Their criminal lifestyle catches up with them when the husband runs a quick errand and doesn’t come back. Learning that he’s been kidnapped, the wife has 20 minutes to deliver a large amount of money for his return. With tears in her eyes, the wife spends a long night in search of cash that’s not available — bartering with the mysterious, tough-talking stranger (Ice-T) who holds the key to her husband’s freedom.

The strange conclusion to the wife’s journey is guided along by the inherent mercy of the holiday season, where the Christmas spirit can even touch drug dealers and their enemies. How bleak could things really get in a movie that opens with a children’s holiday pageant, a carriage ride, and a festive “Deck the Halls” theme from Schooly D? For all that well intentioned fanfare, Ferrara seems to take the epiphanies and tough-love salvations of ’R Xmas with the deapdan comic skepticism that comes with facing an uncertain future. His film, set in December 1993, ends with Mayor-elect Rudy Giuliani’s New Year’s resolution.

“Good and bad?” Ferrara smirks. “What’s good today is worse tomorrow. Don’t ask too many questions.”

Ice T in ’R Xmas

Abel Ferrara: Before you got here, I was having this fucking dream! I was acting in a big, expensive feature with Mickey Rourke, who was driving everybody crazy but me. It was a riot, man. I was only an actor in this dream, not directing, so it wasn’t a problem for me. I thought all of his requests were very reasonable. [laughs] Can you imagine? What a nightmare! I don’t know — I guess it wasn’t a nightmare. Anyway… so our film is comin’ out!

Filmmaker: How did ’R Xmas come about?

Ferrara: Since King of New York, I was trying to find something that was the opposite of this make-believe Grimm’s-fairy-tale version of New York drug dealing. In this movie, we would see how it works when you buy these little packages. Basically, we’re talking about a movie that uses the Traffic angle: “How is it really done?” That movie’s not gonna be Chris Walken living at the Plaza Hotel with a bunch of Gucci wearin’ people — although that might be a reality, too.

We came upon a woman who told us this story, which we accepted as the truth. Basically, a drug dealer gets kidnapped. Wow, boy meets girl! She thinks it’s the most original idea in the world and that she and I are gonna go buddy-buddy the whole way on this film. Afterwards, she thinks we’ll go on Oprah Winfrey. I keep telling her, “You’re a heroin dealer, honey! It’s not like the world is waiting to greet you and hug you!” But she never actually wrote down anything [for ’R Xmas]. She just told us a story [that Scott Pardo and I adapted into a screenplay].

Filmmaker: When she told you the story, was it set during Christmastime, or did you make that part up?

Ferrara: No, it was during Christmastime! Who would put that in? That’s why you kid yourself when you say that this was a true story — because who would add the fact that it happened on Christmas Eve? So much of it was a joke, and such a cliché. So you say, “Oh, that was true.” And that makes it better? What difference does it make? How do you know it’s true anyway? This story took place like 5 years ago. It’s not like I went and investigated the case. And the more this woman knew it was actually being made into a movie, the truer it got! [laughs] It’s like she started changing in a phone booth and was putting on a red cape! She didn’t want us to show she ever did anything wrong [in her life]. Get real.

Filmmaker: When was the film shot?

Ferrara: Uhhhh… we shot it in May, June. A couple of years ago. Try shooting a Christmas story in May and June! That separates the men from the boys. With these things, it gets down to the point where when you get the money, you just shoot. You don’t care what [the problems are]. You’ll shoot an ocean-fucking-faring movie in Kansas, you know what I mean? Budgets are few and far between in this world. I’m speaking for everybody, except maybe Spielberg.

Filmmaker: How did Ice-T get involved?

Ferrara: Ice-T seemed like a natural player, you know? You might as well hire somebody with experience.

Filmmaker: What about the music by Schooly D?

Ferrara: Schooly’s my man. At the time, Schooly and I were close. We had been working with him since 1990, and he started scoring the movies himself. I think the first one he did for us was New Rose Hotel and now ’R Xmas. With Schooly, when you’re close with him, you’re close with him, and when you’re not, you’re not. But he’s a tremendous talent. [’R Xmas] was set in 1993, so it wasn’t a rap-accentuated score. It’s funny because Schooly would never admit to playing as well or as soulfully as he does. These guys have a real thing about being tough-guy rappers, [but] the other side of Schooly is very melodic. He taps into that to score movies. But he keeps those pieces of himself to himself, in a way.

Filmmaker: The movie is set in 1993 —

Ferrara: It might as well be 1963! It’s like a period film.

Filmmaker: Yeah. New York City is so different now than it was nine years ago.

Director Abel Ferrara

Ferrara: You’d be surprised how different it is! It’s the same bit, you know — you fucking research it and then you just go at it. You’d be surprised what the place looked like. That’s the great thing about films;it just opens your eyes to the world. The big change was the Giuliani situation, in terms of controlling the streets. And it’s not that there’s any less drug dealing now. It’s just a question of where it’s happening. Now they bring in this so-called Quality of Life. That’s a very scary expression. Whose quality? Whose life?

Filmmaker: You had three editors on this film. I know you had Bill Pankow, who was De Palma’s guy, and two others. How did that work out?

Ferrara: Pankow had X amount of time to edit. We brought him in for a little while, even though we knew it wasn’t enough. He’s a heavy editor, in his own way. We worked with him before on The Funeral. We’re always trying to find good editors for when our regular one isn’t around. He was off making this documentary while we were doing ’R Xmas. He’s a tough guy to replace. We ended up cutting most of it ourselves. And it shows! [laughs]

Filmmaker: You probably want to stick with the guys you know. Like [actor] Victor Argo — did you just call him up and ask him to come back and do another movie? [This makes his sixth appearance in an Abel Ferrara film.]

Ferrara: Yeah, Victor — I hang out with him. He’s someone I know. I’m just glad there’s a part in the movie that he could play, because he’s not exactly a member of the brat pack. [laughs] But he brings a lot to the table. He brought in those musicians who play [in a scene] at the house, and those were some cool fucking players. You know, a lot of people think Victor is Italian, but he’s not. He’s Puerto Rican. Another funny thing is everybody always sees him walking around the neighborhood. The guy, he must walk from the minute he gets up in the morning.

Filmmaker: You also have a little kid in this film.

Ferrara: There were originally two, but we got rid of one. There was a brother and a sister, but the brother wasn’t working out.

Filmmaker: When did you last work with kids?

Ferrara: I worked with [Reilly Murphy], who was a brilliant actor, in Dangerous Game and Body Snatchers. He kicked ass. This kid had big roles and big scenes opposite Keitel where they were improvising against one another, and he was only five or six years old. You find that these kids are either phenomenal or they’re terrible. This chick in ’R Xmas couldn’t do anything wrong. We would let her go. The other actors would just try to work off of her. But this is really about the other actors, and how they made her feel comfortable.

Filmmaker: They had to be like a family.

Ferrara: Yeah, they could do it. Lillo and Drea were tremendous. They’re really as good as it gets. I hadn’t even met them before doing ’R Xmas. But it’s a professional thing. If the material’s right, the actors will do it — and it’s not a matter of improvisation. It’s a matter of whether they have a script that can respond to. The people I work with have usually seen my work. It’s out there to be watched, and if they’ve seen it they understand what we’re doing. We got a reputation on New Rose Hotel for being out of our minds, but that was such a beautiful story. For me, that’s what it all comes down to.

Filmmaker: So when are you shooting your digital movie? You’re always talking about that.

Ferrara: Tomorrow! [laughs] I’d shoot in a second. That would be awesome.

Filmmaker: With DV, do you feel like you could have a smaller crew and be more mobile?

Ferrara: Ahhh, you’re as mobile as you want to be no matter what. Sometimes, you don’t want to be so mobile. Film is not about shooting 9,000 fucking shots a day. It’s about getting one really beautiful shot. Shooting a shot is a magical thing.

Left: Drea de Matteo and Lillo Brancato. Right: Drea de Matteo

Filmmaker: When you go on set, what’s the environment you want around you?

Ferrara: Total freedom, where the people with you are ready to give their best in a second. That’s why it’s heartbreaking when those guys aren’t working. I take it very personally. It makes me upset. But working with DV takes away the need to raise several million dollars every time you want to do something. You can raise $500,000 and do a feature. Ethan Hawke and his guys shot their digital movie here [at the Chelsea Hotel]. Did you see it?

Filmmaker: Chelsea Walls? No.

Ferrara: I didn’t see it either, but I seen ‘em make it. Why didn’t you see it?

Filmmaker: I can’t see everything. Why didn’t you see it?

Ferrara: It’s not my job to see everything! It’s only my job to see my own, and I don’t even watch them!

Filmmaker: What are some of the things you remember from shooting ’R Xmas?

Ferrara: I liked that we shot it in another language.

Filmmaker: Do you speak Spanish?

Ferrara: No, but I liked that we really delved into another culture.

Filmmaker: Where did you find that crazy Party Girl doll?

Ferrara: Hehhhhhh… I wish the designer was here right now. He’s working tonight.

Filmmaker: So it was made for the film?

Ferrara: Yeah, whattaya think? We went to the FAO Schwartz Sex Store! Where do you get that sick thing? [laughs] Can you imagine a 12-year-old saying, “Can I have that rubber doll?” That stuff was all tongue-in-cheek. It was made as a goof.

Filmmaker: How do you feel about‘R Xmas?

Ferrara: I love it. Ummm… you know… I like it, you know what I mean? Right now I like it. I feel like we accomplished certain things we wanted to get at. I like the idea that it’s a true story, I love the actors in it. For me, there’s such a big sense of satisfaction just finishing the thing.

Filmmaker: How about where you’re at right now? What’s your current situation?

Ferrara: We’re about to start a new film called The Go-Go Tales. I’m just happy I’m alive. [laughs] I’m just happy to be alive and working. I just wanna make good films. For all the complaining and bitching and moaning, at least the films are being made. As of today, we’ve got our head above water. But I don’t know what tomorrow’s gonna be.

Jeremiah Kipp is a freelance journalist based in NYC.