WHEN SHOULD YOU GIVE UP?

By in News
on Wednesday, August 24th, 2011

Over at the literary site The Millions, Edan Lepucki had a post yesterday entitled “Shutting the Drawer: What Happens When a Book Doesn’t Sell?” After receiving rejections from multiple publishers, she writes about her first novel:

The truth is, my novel isn’t selling, and it probably won’t. There, I’ve said it. Eventually, a writer must accept rejection, accept the death of her first true darling, and move on. Can I face that sobering reality? Can I put my first book into the drawer, and shut it?

Oh, you say, what about self-publishing? DIY? Connecting directly to fans? Bypassing the gatekeepers, who don’t know anything anyway? Lepucki has thought of these things.

A friend pointed out that I was waiting to sell my book to publishers, when I could sell it to readers, all by myself. That’s true, of course. Self-publishing is as easy as it’s ever been, and if done well, it can even be lucrative. But, in most cases, self-published authors spend money, not make it, and they have to be their own editor, copy editor, publicist, and book cover designer (which can lead to this and this and this). I certainly could self-publish my novel, but I don’t have the cash, time, or talent to do it successfully. Plus, there’s still a stigma to publishing your own writing. Though this is changing, I’ve never been an early adopter. (I used my AOL email account well into the new millennium, y’all; I leave the experiments to the innovative types.) The truth is, I want a reputable publishing house standing behind my book; I want them to tell you it’s good so that I don’t have to.

So, okay, I’m willing to let my book die, if that’s to be its fate.

I’m struck here by the finality of Lepucki’s decision and how difficult it is to achieve that same kind of acceptance in the world of independent film. I’m not trying to minimize the grueling and solitary work of novel writing by noting independent film’s key difference: the existence of, usually, outside investment and many other people. Directors and producers rely on others to enable their visions, and it’s very difficult to tell them that those visions turned out to be not so visionary. Investors want to know their belief went to something worthy (to say nothing of their money back). It’s hard to admit to oneself that you have disappointed them. And then there are the crew who have done great work within a flawed project. For them, an audience will produce both pride and career opportunity. Finally, there are all those phone calls — “Hey, when’s the film coming out?”— and your own struggling ego, which says, there must be something more you can do.

Overarching there is the mindset that we — and yes, I include Filmmaker here — have perhaps unfairly created, which is that a film’s failure to come out is a reflection of the will of its creator.

But some films shouldn’t come out. They don’t work, and they don’t represent the filmmakers’ potential as much as they need to. Where would Quentin Tarantino be today if he had spent years flogging on the festival circuit and then DIY-releasing his own largely unseen first feature, which he admits in interviews was chopped up into guitar picks? (Yes, we’re talking the days of celluloid here.) Some films that do great on the festival circuit are probably best served by going straight to some form of home release and not trying theatrical. Some scripts are better as writing samples than first features, and others are simply great test runs or writing exercises.

A few things got me thinking about this recently. A colleague and I were emailing the other day, and he wondered whether the poor theatrical box office results of some of the best independent films right now are partially due to the marketplace being glutted with too much product. Maybe, I said, but this glut has been with us for a while. But it’s true — I’ve seen several films released theatrically over the last several months that, frankly, probably shouldn’t have. I can’t believe that their reviews and box office helped the people who made them. Perhaps these releases were necessary ones to trigger ancillary sales, or maybe their P&A budgets were part of the initial raises and thus were contractual obligations. But maybe not. Maybe their releases were just good money after bad.

I was reminded of a conversation I had with a filmmaker about 15 years ago when I read James Schamus’s remembrance of Raul Ruiz and the making of The Golden Boat. In his piece, James writes about repaying the film’s investors with the money he made from another film, The Wedding Banquet. I knew about this when I spoke to that filmmaker, who had made an excellent first feature that made minor waves on the festival circuit and had subsequently embarked on a well-received run of non-theatrical college dates. But still he hadn’t paid back his investors, and two years later he was continuing to work on new schemes to do so. He called me for advice, and it wasn’t the first time. Having run out of suggestions, I said to him, remembering James, “You know, you should probably move on and if you’re so concerned about your investors why not pay them back from your next project?” I have no idea whether he did this or not, but I will note that he is now a very successful screenwriter.

When is it time to quit? Being a both a personal and a business decision, it is hard to say. Maybe Lepucki’s book is a masterpiece, a future A Confederacy of Dunces. Maybe the wisdom learned from writing it will make her next book that incredible discovery. In my own work, I’m neither a sage or a self-disciplined rationalist. I’ve persevered on projects and have been happy I’ve done so; there are films on video shelves and Netflix cues that wouldn’t be there without a final push. But I’ve also been part of projects that, with the wisdom time brings, I know now we — our investors and even the filmmaker — would have been better off calling it a day a little bit earlier.

One last tale. Years ago I was submitted a script by someone I knew from a film shoot. It was to be his first feature, and he had been working on it for a very long time. It wasn’t for me, and I gave my honest reaction, which was to say what I liked and what I thought could be improved. I remember his pausing before saying, “Look, I’ve been working on this for years. I really want to make it, but everyone keeps passing and I feel like I’m at the end of the line. Do you think I should just give up and move on?”

Generally, I never tell people to do that. Who am I? But there was something in his voice that, I felt, gave me permission to say what I was about to say. It was as if he knew the answer already and just needed someone to give it to him. “I think you could work on this for years and, in the end, I don’t you’ll ever get it made,” I said. “So, yes, I think you should move on.” “Thanks,” he said, and hung up.

I felt kind of bad, wondering whether I said the right thing. Then, a couple of years later, I got a call from this same filmmaker. “I’m standing on the set,” he said, “and I just wanted to thank you. I took your advice, gave up on that script and wrote a new one. And now it’s the first day of shooting my first feature.”

He was right to give up — not on his filmmaking dreams, but on the project he thought would enable those dreams. It was the smart thing to do.

When do you think it’s right to give up?

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  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=563559729 Lisa Y. Garibay

    Superb post, Scott. Thank you for putting this out there. It’s a very constructive way to look at the process as a whole, not with just a singular “succeed or die” POV. I work hard myself to try and help more people think this way.

    • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

      Hey Lisa, good to hear from you. Yeah, I think it can’t be as much about “making a film” as about “making it as a filmmaker.” The former is short-term, and it’s okay to succeed or fail. The focus should be on sustainability and the long-time, and succeeding at that (keeping in mind that you have to be flexible with your definition of success.)

  • Josh Welsh

    Great post, Scott.   I honestly  find it difficult to tell the difference between necessary perseverance and stubborn self-delusion, in indie filmmakers. I know people who have made wonderful films after many years of slogging away at them, projects where I had long ago thought that the filmmakers should probably move on to something else.  It’s nice, in those cases, to be proven wrong. I think part of the challenge for indie filmmakers is that so many people work in isolation and don’t get a lot of honest/helpful feedback on the script and the project. They may have input from their tight circle of friends, family and collaborators, but nothing outside of that circle that could help them gauge their project.  Also, the fact that it routinely takes many years for filmmakers — and not just first-timers –to get indie films made, helps to reinforce a general belief that you should never give up.

    • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

      You’re absolutely right, and you have put your finger on the reason that I was at first hesitant to write this post. Things are always more complicated. There are also filmmakers who are genetically incapable of moving forward with their artistic lives without having completed that first specific project. For them, they can’t really give up. And, as I said in the piece, what do I know? I’ve been surprised plenty of times by people who against all odds got things made and they were great. I agree that accepting constructive feedback is the key. So many times films get made and what’s wrong with them are things people pointed out many times about the script. 

    • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

      You’re absolutely right, and you have put your finger on the reason that I was at first hesitant to write this post. Things are always more complicated. There are also filmmakers who are genetically incapable of moving forward with their artistic lives without having completed that first specific project. For them, they can’t really give up. And, as I said in the piece, what do I know? I’ve been surprised plenty of times by people who against all odds got things made and they were great. I agree that accepting constructive feedback is the key. So many times films get made and what’s wrong with them are things people pointed out many times about the script. 

      • EVERETTE

         Scott, I will never quit.   This is necessary perseverance and stubborn self-delusion.   I began work on my first feature in the 2000.    It began going badly quickly.   I took a long view of the situation and I knew that I should stop, but I convinced myself that I was not one to give up, thus, I forged along.   The problem was my lead actor.   He hounded me for the role.  I gave it to him and after a few days into the role, he became a prima donna, Wells and Hitchock.   He wanted to be treated with the respect that his lead role demanded.    Now, this was, not a low-budget, but a no-budget attempt at a feature.    Because of the leads behavior, I decided to shoot around the major scenes, to avoid him holding me over a barrel.   I got about ninety-eight percent of the film made before exhausting the little that I had.   Frustrated but undaunted, this film sits on the floor of my living room.  

        The pressure under which I was functioning because of this actor caused me to lose focus.  It was not about making good any longer, it was simply about getting it done.   I hated what I was doing.   I was not meeting my intent.    I recalled Tarantino discussing his first attempt at a feature and his disgust at the result.  That is how I felt.   From 2000 to now 2012, I have not made another film.  I have co-produced one and worked on films that are the dreams of others.    I have never considered quitting.    I will not.  I have turned gray during my wait but I am hopeful. 

        About two years ago, I met a man at the office party of a friend of mine and I asked him if I might interest him in a film project.  He said, “Yes.”   He was a bit tipsy.   I dismissed his response and I did not follow up with him.   I met him again recently and he recalled the conversation.  He has agreed to finance my next project.    Sometimes one has to step back and reassess things. 

        Over the period when I was not making films or movies, I was consistently writing.   Each morning at five A. M. I wake up and write.   At this point, I have sixty-seven scripts.   I write because I do not have the resources to direct, but I must be prepared for any opportunity. 

        Never give up because usually when one gives up one is at that point where one is skillfully knowledgeable and prepared to scale that wall of frustrating setbacks. 

        TO THE STARS THROUGH BOLTS AND BARS.  STRAIGHT AHEAD.
        DON’T LOOK DOWN AND DON’T LOOK BACK!

        • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

          That’s a great story. Glad you were able to survive your bad actor to make it another film. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/i.m.ishwar Ishwar L. Maisuria

    Thanks Scott. A great article.  The passion and perseverance does indeed need a trail through the jungle that leads to enchantment. I find multiple projects must always be juggling up in the air.  It’s helped me over the years.  

    • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

      I see a lot of filmmakers get trapped in the single-project rut. I think it’s important to have at least a couple of things going, even if one is more front burner and the other back. 

  • Melthompson22

    Wow, what a timely article. As of yesterday I am 0 for 2 on my film fest run, and am getting that sinking feeling that my film will never see the light of day. But to keep it in perspective, this is my first feature. And while there are some nice moments in the film, it has its share of cringe-worthy, amateur moments. Wilil I get discouraged? No. Money may have been wasted, but not time and experience. So I will take what I’ve learned and get better the next time.

    Thanks for sharing this article.

    • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

      Hi Mel,

      Thanks for the reply and glad you got something out of it. When you say you’re “0 for 2,” do you mean festival rejections or screenings without sales? In either case, two is not that many. Yes, keep it in perspective, and definitely value what you got out of it in terms of experience. But also know that you haven’t been out there that long and things can happen. Another anecdote: I spoke to a filmmaker recently who had debated accepting an invite from a tiny Midwest film festival he couldn’t imagine would help his film. He decided to go, and on the jury was a woman from a distribution company; she happened to be from that town and was attending as a way to visit her home. She fell in love with the film and picked it up. So, things can happen.

      • Melthompson22

        Thanks for the reply, Scott.

        I am 0 for 2 in festival rejections with 3 more pending. So I’m just getting started and, as you said, anything can happen. Ultimately, it comes down to finding the right home which takes research and perseverance. But the film is not a make or break for me so I will not be paralyzed as I wait for acceptance. Which is why I am developing my next feature and will chalk up the first one as a “trial run” (without undermining the outstanding work from my cast and crew, of course).

        A door will open someday, whether it’s my first, second or third feature.

        • Kurt Kuenne

          Hi Mel,

          I just wanted to reinforce Scott’s answer that 2 festival rejections is NOTHING.  My short film “Validation” got rejected from the first 10 festivals I sent it to, before going on to play more than 40 festivals around the world, winning more than 20 awards and now has almost 6 million hits on YouTube (and at one time a couple of years ago was the site’s top-rated comedy selection).  My feature documentary “Dear Zachary” got rejected by the first 3 festivals I sent it to, then continued to be rejected by 50% of the festivals I sent it to — but it was picked up by MSNBC, Oscilloscope and made the National Board of Review list for that year.  My first feature back in the late 90s languished around through a year of festival rejections from the majors before it finally landed a festival (a very depressing year, to be sure) but once we started playing smaller fests, it got picked up for foreign distribution, somewhere along the line this fine publication (“Filmmaker”) saw it and put me on their Top 25 New Faces of Indie Film list (it was the second year they ever had such a list), which was a huge surprise and gave me an energy boost that powered me through the rest of the process.  Heck, I didn’t even know they’d seen the film!  (The fine filmmaker Mr. Tom Quinn who posted above is another who made that list after years and years of hard work.)

          You have to take into account the personality and taste of the festivals you’re sending to — some are just not your audience, don’t cotton to your particular type of film and/or filmmaking style, and that’s okay.  A very small group of specific people with specific tastes makes the determination at each festival;  if you’ve made your film for an audience of millions, that’s way too small of a market sample to influence your actions.  That’s why you’ve got to try every avenue.  But you’ve got to try.  You can’t give up on a specific film early in the process – especially if you believe in it.  

          I’m working now adapting a book into a stage musical — and the author has told me that his book was rejected 4 different times by the very publisher that eventually published it, and it went on to become a New York Times Bestseller, has become a trilogy with graphic novel spinoffs and large fan base of young readers.  Think about that — 4 different rejections from the very publisher that eventually published the book!  (He changed their mind when he got it published in the UK and it became a big success there.)  That’s a guy who knows about persistence, knows when he’s got something worth fighting for and makes it happen (and makes him someone worth working with :).

          If you decide a specific movie was a bad idea, and want to move on to a better one, I get it.  But if you believe in something in your gut – and you’ve seen positive reaction at test screenings with unbiased strangers, and therefore know there’s an audience for your movie – keep going.  A lot of moviegoers will be glad you did.  But 2 festival rejections?  Particularly if they’re the big guys?  I repeat:  that’s NOTHING.

          • Tom Quinn

            Great post, Kurt! I’m so excited for everything you have cooking right now and it’s inspiring to see your hard work pay off!

          • Kurt Kuenne

            Thanks, Tom!  Hope to see you again someday very soon. :)

          • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

            Hi Kurt, thanks so much for sharing your story. It’s really both inspiration and reality check in the context of this thread. I agree, a couple of rejections is nothing. 

            An aside — I had a great email exchange yesterday with a filmmaker who was responding to this thread. She’s been working on her doc since about 2005… and just found a partner who will be covering the finishing costs. 

          • Kurt Kuenne

            Thanks, Scott — and that’s great to hear about the doc filmmaker who just got completion funding after 6 years of persistence.  ”Dear Zachary” took me about 6 years from start to finish as well.  Congrats to her!

          • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

            Oh, and also, it’s really nice to hear the “25″ helped in some way. I’ve wanted to go back over the early days of the list and track what everyone has been doing so it was great to hear about all the new projects.

          • Kurt Kuenne

            Hi Scott,

            The “25″ was wonderful, and gave me a huge confidence boost during a period when I was waiting tables to make ends meet while seeking a buyer for my film, while also working up the enthusiasm to sit down every day to write my next script.  It was also a wonderful accolade to use both in promoting the film and in getting representation to take me seriously.  During the last few years, I befriended Heidi Van Lier on the fest circuit without realizing – until she pointed it out – that she was on the same “25″ list that year with me.  Small world!  She’s making the fest rounds with her new feature “American Decaf” now.

            As far as new projects go, I just finished a new fiction feature called “Shuffle” which starts playing fests next month.  All the best and thanks so much!

  • Ruth

    what a great post. as a script consultant i deal with this dilemma constantly. my goal when i work with writers is to encourage and support them to fine tune their vision no matter how long it takes but sometimes it’s best to take what you’ve learned and move on to the next piece. not easy to do if you’ve been working on a script for many years. your piece deftly captures an essential truth -that filmmaking is a process and an ongoing, honest assessment of your work is vital to your longterm success. thanks for sharing.

    • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

      Thanks, Ruth — from someone who started his film career as a script reader, they are appreciated.

  • Konrad Stief

    Fine article and yes I had to drop plenty of past short film projects due to lack of cast, reliable crew or realizing a particular script isn’t right for me at a particular time (not enough funding!). I haven’t given up on my film goals at all in spite of the numerous setbacks and this past spring my province’s government has destroyed what we had of a film infrastructure with the sacking of tax credits, development loans and equity program. All of this hasn’t stopped me at all and just this week I have decided to film elsewhere in the USA or western Canada instead of the east coast of Canada to begin anew with upcoming projects. Giving up is another way of giving life to new film opportunities with extremely talented people in other areas of the world.

    I will avoid mentioning another filmmaker who should have given up on his/her current film project after the failure of three crowdfunding campaigns clearly illustrating no one is interested in the particular film. As a result a half-ass job is in the works and cast/crew members are now dropping out of the project so that certain filmmaker should be honest with him/herself and move on to another project.

  • Tom Quinn

    I know this feeling all too well.  After college, I spent 7 years on my first feature.  We shot on and off for the first year, then lost our lead.  We re-cast the film and began anew.  After three years we wrapped and did a sample screening during the old IFP film week project forum.  After two more years of working nights and weekends, we finally screened at a neighborhood theater for cast and crew.  

    I felt it was lousy, but am very luck to have many supportive family and friends.  They told me it was good, that it was worth waiting for.  I started to wonder if I was being to hard on myself.  MAYBE there was some life in this project.

    At the time, I was working at a high school.  Many of my students had come out in support and that Monday we had film club.   I was walking them through their upcoming shoot as they sat silently.  When I finished, one of them smirked: “Like you know how to make a film.”   

    Nothing will slap the sense into you like a brutally honest teenager.  He was totally right and I buried that film in the backyard.  Fortunately, I had a draft of my next project and immediately dove into that before getting too bummed out!!    It was not seven years wasted; it was seven years spent learning and extremely valuable to me.  I wish I could have served the cast and crew better, but we all moved on to new things and have great memories.  

    BTW: that teenager was a great PA on The New Year Parade.  It became a running gag that I would always ask him “How’s it look?”  He would look at the monitor and deadpan, “Better than your last movie.”   

    • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

      Hey Tom, thanks for posting. That’s a great story — showing the film to your students and then burying it in the backyard. I can see how that moment would stay with you forever. Really appreciate you sharing it here for everyone.

  • http://twitter.com/ryesss R.O.

    This article is a tough read. I’m a writer first and foremost and we tend to experience this after we spend years working on a script only to shelf it. But I should add that I recently threw a lot of money down the drain on a project that never went anywhere. Quite frankly, my resources were limited and the people working on it did not think it was worth their time in the end.

    I do believe it is important to give up. At times there are projects that I am intensely passionate about and after experiencing a lull with them, the passion dissipates. I think the takeaway from these lessons is to continuously get feedback and listen to your audience/readers in an honest and open manner. Not everyone will like your things (I’ve had the same script referred to as “crap” and “poetic” by two different people) but overall it should leave you with some sort of seemingly objective idea about the work’s worth.

    • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

      Agreed. In fact, I’d argue that being able to process feedback — even if only to thoughtfully reject it — is a necessary skill for filmmakers that’s often not acknowledged as such.

  • http://twitter.com/MegaMarkHarris Mark Harris

    This is hard for me to judge. Just about every movie takes years to get to the screen. And some movies take many many years. I guess in the case of both movies and books, or any art in general, I would just put it in the drawer and say now is not the time. I don’t think that’s the same as giving up on it. You never know what opportunities might pop up down the line. And the work is done, so…
    I agree with Scott though about having a few things going. I have a film in post, a few new film ideas I am about to pitch for grants, some transmedia stuff coming up related to my film, a small tech start-up with two friends. I do think the sort of cross-pollination between these various pursuits is good and helps keep you sane and energized. Esp for things that can take as long to make as movies. Though it makes me insane when several of them come to fruition at the same time…

  • http://www.elephantoncampus.com Ekim Namwen

    you know it’s time to give up when your gut tells you to. it’s hard to listen to your gut though when your ego stands in the way. so i guess it first requires killing your ego and when that happens you’ll be more capable of knowing when to push forward or when to drop back and punt.

    giving up doesn’t always have to have a negative connotation. a new dream can’t be born if an old dream is standing in the way. perhaps the timing just isn’t right for the project you are trying to make and the best path is to put it aside for a while and work on something new. well, at least that is what i have learned along the way of my crazy filmmaking journey.

    • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

      I agree that giving up doesn’t have to have a negative connotation. I’m a big fan of the phrase “declare victory and move on” — meaning, figure out what you can call a net positive from your endeavor, acknowledge it, and then go to the next thing.

      • http://downanddangerousmovie.com Zak Forsman

        Totally agree. Something inside me wanted to keep pushing my first feature on my own and devote additional years to it as a full-fledged, soup to nuts DIY endeavor, but recently we did as you said, “declared victory and moved on”. We licensed the movie to a distributor, put it in their capable hands and now I’m onto to a new project that will challenge me to grow as a storyteller and to make a movie better than my last.  It’s something of a relief to let the first one go.

        • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

          Thanks for posting and congrats on the Kickstarter success. Yes, there is that nice moment when you feel you can step back and call it a day. For me, that might be boxing up the files and sticking them in storage or, more realistically, just clicking off the project as a whole on my task management software. Of course, this is just an illusion, because in some way the project will never truly let you go. Wait until you start getting calls a decade from now because somebody somewhere needs something and you’re the only one they can get to…

  • http://twitter.com/RalphGreco1 Ralph Greco

    “I want a reputable publishing house standing behind my book; I want them to tell you it’s good so that I don’t have to”. While I understand the very real concern at the core of this sentiment, this quote seems hard for me to swallow. 

    Isn’t the notion of “wanting someone else to carry the ball” the old world model, while being master of your own domain is becoming the new reality in terms of establishing a sustainable creative career?  Of course, DIY is not for everyone and in many ways it’s much more or a workload and a burden to carry on top of solely being a creator.

    However, I think it comes down deciding what what kind of a career you unltimately want to have. Do you want to build a cottage industry around your work or do you want to establish yourself through the existing system?  I think both routes are filled with similar and equally painful hurdles to overcome and one path is no more of a sure thing than the other.

    • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

      I think it’s really hard to answer the question without knowing more about her book. Yeah, there are DIY publishing successes, but it’s really hard for a certain kind of literary fiction to break out without publisher support. Also, as much as I cheerlead DIY filmmakers (and, by extension, novelists), I think it’s also important to say that not everyone is cut out for that path, and that’s fine. I think they are two different skill sets, and perhaps for her the best path is actually to write a new book rather than figure out how to DIY release this one.

      • http://twitter.com/MegaMarkHarris Mark Harris

        And it cannot be stressed enough just how much work the DIY approach is.

  • http://twitter.com/luciwest Luci Westphal

    Thank you for this great post, Scott! That (scary) question has been looming over my head for a long time, especially after a year of not being able to get my second documentary into festivals and not being quite ready to face other avenues.

    I was almost scared to read the article – worried the answer would become very apparent: that I’m fooling myself and I should just quit. But then I found your post actually very encouraging. I really appreciate your theory that “to quit” doesn’t mean giving up on filmmaking, but the possibility to move on to another project, to liberate yourself. Personally, I’m still not quite ready to give up on my current film altogether, but at least I feel encouraged to quit hoping for a call from a festival and instead try to figure out if there are other options before I put it to rest altogether and move on to the next project.

    • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

      Hi Luci, thanks for the kind words. I think one thing I need to reiterate here is that in the anecdotes I used, the filmmakers spent years on their projects before moving on. It definitely sounds like you have more avenues to pursue before moving on.

  • Slugwriter

    You quit when it’s right for you to quit, whenever that is–if it is.

    BUT

    I’ll point to this story (even though it’s about a novelist, it applies to filmmakers, screenwriters, etc. too,): in Poets & Writers magazine about Sam Savage who struggled for years–giving up at one point–before finally being published at age 65. 

    http://www.pw.org/content/living_room_a_profile_of_sam_savage

    Success is different for everyone, we define it on our terms, and it comes when it comes…

    But success will never happen if you quit.

  • Stewart Nusbaumer

    Many years ago there was a study — at least I remember it as a
    study — on what attributes make people successful (let’s jump over defining
    “successful”) in their careers. The study couldn’t find anything they
    held in common. Some of the subjects were highly focused on details,
    others were aloof from the mechanics of the endeavor; some had aggressive
    personalities and others didn’t; still others were risk takers and
    others tended to play things safe; etc. it went. Eventually, however,
    the study uncovered one attribute that they all possessed. It was this: failure
    did not stop them. They viewed failure as a step, not as an end. Failure as a
    step toward success. 

     

    Of course, independent filmmakers do not need to be told this. They live it nearly every
    day.    

     

  • http://www.facebook.com/hdowling1 Heather Bailey

    As a very wise friend of mine said. Hey its not a waste of time, they are paying you to learn. You get that first paycheck and you realize just how true that is. I’m not a filmmaker. Just a chainsaw carver. Anything creative goes through all of the same growing pains. I’ve sold amazing masterpieces for pennies, but at least I still got paid to learn. 

    • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

      Hi Heather, thanks for replying. Here’s the rub for independent filmmakers — they’re usually not being paid during these periods I’m speaking of, the times before money arrives to formally greenlight a project. I think the key for filmmakers is to make sure they’re still learning things even when their projects aren’t yet shooting.

  • Anonymous

    Fantastic, Scott!  I’m a huge fan of articles regarding the more “mushy,” often unspoken, yet often thought about aspects of independent filmmaking.

    I’d like to note a very important factor in this conversation I did not see mentioned in your article nor in the comments: experience.

    I believe the decision to “give up” on a film ought to be somewhat relative to the filmmaker’s and cast/crew’s experience.  In other words, most beginning filmmakers quite frankly are not capable of making a really good film, one worth sticking to and investing in after it is done.  Let’s call one’s first/second film what it really is: an exercise, a project, a lesson!  So, like your eighth grade algebra homework, let it go and move on.  Sure, once in a while a genius comes along and gets into all the top fests with his/her first film, but that’s a freak of nature or just plain luck.

    Getting into a festival for a first/second timer should be icing on the cake, not a goal.  Having Sundance as a goal as a beginner is just plain ludicrous.  It might happen, sure, but most likely not.  Make your damn first movie, make your second, third, even fourth and move on.  Learn.  Learn. Learn and earn the right to hold onto a film and invest in it and push it out into the world.

    There’s something about filmmaking that causes one to lose all perspective on craft, mastery and professionalism.  For some reason, many filmmakers think they can make one movie and get into all sorts of fests and receive distribution.  That’s crazy and totally askew compared to other professions.  Perhaps its because filmmakers often expend a ton of time, money and energy on their films, so they can’t move on.  If that’s the case, then make movies for nothing, or next to nothing.  Then you can “afford” to quit and move on!

    Okay, I’m just really passionate about this! :)  I’m fed up with the first-timer delusion…  It simply doesn’t seem to exist in other realms.  For some reason, filmmaker don’t get the concept of “putting in your dues.”

    Christopher

    • http://www.filmmakermagazine.com Scott Macaulay

      Hey Christopher, thanks for your comment. Your post touched on something I’ve been mulling for a long time, and I think I’ll make it the next one of these mushy posts. (The longer I do this, the more I feel that the “mushy” stuff is actually the hardest and most important to learn. You can read books, find mentors, etc. on the technical and business stuff, but figuring out how to adapt your own personality and behaviors to the business is the hardest.) Specifically, this quote really hit home:

      “There’s something about filmmaking that causes one to lose all perspective on craft, mastery and professionalism.  For some reason, many filmmakers think they can make one movie and get into all sorts of fests and receive distribution.  That’s crazy and totally askew compared to other professions.”

      You’re totally right, and I’ll try to expand my thoughts about this. Hope you and your new film are well.

      • Anonymous

        Thank you for the reply, Scott.  I really look forward to your article!

    • Tom Quinn

      This is a great point and one I keep trying to remind myself of.   Thanks, Christopher.

      • Anonymous

        For sure.  Nice to meet you, Tom :)

    • Kurt Kuenne

      Great observation, Christopher.  It echoes what Malcolm Gladwell talks about in his book “Outliers” (if you haven’t read it, I highly recommend it);  his studies of highly successful people indicate that it takes at minimum 10,000 hours of practicing one’s craft to attain a level of mastery.  As time consuming as making a film is, a single film isn’t going to net a filmmaker anywhere near that number of hours engaged in the actual activity of directing.  So any positive results a filmmaker gets prior to logging their 10,000 hours should be considered gravy. :)

      • Anonymous

        Thank you for the reply, Kurt.  Though I haven’t read OUTLIERS, a good friend of mine constantly talks about it; so I feel as though I have “read” it!  LOL

        Yeah, that’s totally my main issue with cultivating the craft of actual directing: we rarely do it!  Raising money, writing a script, begging friends to help, etc. is not directing – it’s being an independent filmmaker.  However, the actual art of directing is rarely practiced. 

        I really think the solution is to frequently make short films (even one scene) with a bare-bones approach rather than one “big” project every 2 or 3 years.  I believe in this so much, I recently made one film per week for seven consecutive weeks and it was a great experience!

        -Christopher

  • Biancaes

    Great article! I agree with much of what you said; I also wanted to add that there is a difference between shelving one project and moving on to the next versus giving up as a filmmaker (and/or screenwriter, writer, visual artist, etc.) altogether. There is also a difference between switching among different creative mediums (example-photo, then video, then writing, then photo and film again) and stopping altogether.
    I also think that if you can give up then you should. Because, ultimately and beyond business concerns, there has to be some sort of an internal driving force. Some kind of blind need to keep looking into the camera, to keep rolling the film, to keep telling the stories, to keep pouring out the words. I think that, maybe, the question is not just simply how soon should I give up on the first story, but how badly do I want start the next one?

  • http://twitter.com/theactorgenie Actor Genie

    Timing is everything and patience is paramount, sometimes giving up means not now but not necessarily to be forgotten.thnx for this article.

  • Mafiando

    Teaming up with like minded writers is key, and having more than one project is essential, see which one kicks in, and voila don’t pull the hairs out of a bold coconut.

  • Tamara Krinsky

    Thanks for the great post…good food for thought about giving up on a single project vs giving up on a career.

    Another issue that affects the “give up” question is how life changes as you get older. It’s a lot different trying to make a project (and dedicating all time and resources, working for free, etc) when you are 22 & single than later on when you have a family. On one hand, you want to set a good example about what it means to pursue your artistic dreams; on the other, there’s the practical aspect of putting food on the table for those who are depending on you.

  • Tamara Krinsky

    Thanks for the great post…good food for thought about giving up on a single project vs giving up on a career.

    Another issue that affects the “give up” question is how life changes as you get older. It’s a lot different trying to make a project (and dedicating all time and resources, working for free, etc) when you are 22 & single than later on when you have a family. On one hand, you want to set a good example about what it means to pursue your artistic dreams; on the other, there’s the practical aspect of putting food on the table for those who are depending on you.

  • http://sujewaekanayake.blogspot.com/ Sujewa Ekanayake

    Q:  “When should you give up?” 

    All of the following answers are correct:

    A1:  Never of course.

    A2:  When you are absolutely – 110% - forced to by an outside entity (if so, then think of the giving up as a temporary thing, work on defeating the obstacle & getting back to work at some point in the future).

    A3:  When you die (unless you are still able to make movies/art from the afterlife, then continue).

    A4:  Giving up on one project, or several projects, or even one art form may be acceptable (to yourself, ultimately), but think very hard about giving up on being an artist altogether (may be unhealthy, similar to giving up religion for people who have been positively supported by/depended on it for a long time).

    A5: It is completely OK to give up on trying to become a Hollywood or an indiewood success, as achieving those goals are not entirely under your control but are subject to approval by people with access to large amounts of money, festival programming, distribution, etc.  However, in 2011 it is completely possible to make film as art work and make it available for people to see – as painters, musicians, & a lot of other artists do with their work.  Even if you cannot achieve “professional” success in filmmaking, if you are still excited by the work, you should do it – look at that cave dude(s?) who left those paintings in that old cave in France(?) tens of thousands of years ago – were they great painters by our standards?  No.  Were they paid for painting animals & stuff on cave walls?  Probably not, & if so, probably not much.  Is their art important for understanding human/our development & history?  Yes.

    - S

    • MPinson

      Yes, France, the caves of Lascaux.

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